Let's start at the begining.
A couple decades ago I decided that I wanted to learn a martial art, and I ended up studying Taijiquan at the local Taoist Tai Chi Association club. I fell in love with taijiquan, primarily because it has such incredible and almost immediate results---even though I was not, and never have been, a terribly co-ordinated person.
I tend to be a "joiner" and whenever I like something, I tend to want to get involved in helping promote and build the group. Eventually, I started going to the head office in Toronto once in a while for instruction and I also spent a summer helping out at the Orangeville retreat centre as a volunteer when it first opened.
Eventually, I was asked if I would like to go to "the Temple". It was a little structure over the top of the Toronto taijiquan club. To participate we used to dress up in ornate, brocade gowns and participate in chanting services. These were nothing at all like my experience of either Christian services (incredibly boring and pointless) or Buddhist meditation (extremely intellectual and painful on the knees). We kneeled on benches and chanted phonetically-rendered Chinese texts according to the tempo of a cantor who beat out time on a wood block. Periodically he would call out "Kow Tow" and we would "knock head" on the floor before us. Written here, it may sound absurd, but it was one of the most enjoyable, holistic experiences I have ever had. The only thing I can compare it to is what I have seen of an American Black Gospel congregation holding one of their services where everyone gets totally absorbed.
At the time, the leader of the Taoist Tai Chi Association (Moy Lin Shin)
was asking individuals if they wanted to "join" the temple. I thought he was looking for yet another way of squeeze money out of the members (there was a $300 fee), so I said something to the effect of "Great idea, too bad I simply cannot afford it." He came back to me the next time I saw him, raised the idea again and made a "special introductory offer" of only $30 to join. I couldn't see any problem with this, so I agreed. Later on, I went through this ceremony that involved going to the head of the Temple with Moi Ming Do (an older Daoshi from Hong Kong that used to visit once in a while and taught meditation.) I was asked to Kow Tow several times and offer three sticks of sandalwood incense in front of an altar. I didn't have a clue about what was going on and didn't think very much about it.
A little while later I saw some things about the organization that I didn't really agree with, so I left.
I was totally surprised by the extreme reaction that came from Moy Lin Shin. I tried to teach taijiquan at a few places after I left the club, and he went to the trouble of sending instructors to tell these institutions that I was unqualified. This was understandable, if a bit weird. (He had a habit of doing this sort of thing, which was part of why I left the group.) What struck me as bizarre was that he went to the trouble of sending telegrams to all the Taoist Tai Chi clubs in the world in order to tell them that I was "persona non-grata".
I went on with my life, but kept doing tajiquan, meditating, etc. Years went by and I never really thought of myself as a "Daoist". In fact, I flirted with becoming a Buddhist, Sufi, Christian, or anything else as I continued in my own personal spiritual search.
Then along came the internet and I found a website called the "Taoist Restoration Society" (it no longer exists.) This group was set up to help Westerners learn about Daoism and help the re-emergence of Daoism in mainland China. In actual fact, the website seemed more than anything else to be designed to insult and antagonize the sorts of people who learned about Daoism from books like The Dao of Pooh. It did have the value, however, of introducing me to the whole world of academic scholarship that deals with Daoism.
One of the first things I noticed was a "Questions" part of the website that dealt with the sort of naive things Westerners ask about the religion. One person asked how they could become "baptised" as a Daoist. The response was that there is no such thing. I wrote in at that point and described the ritual that I had gone through and got the response that this was not a "baptism", but rather an "ordination". The implication was that I had not "joined a temple", but rather that I had been initiated in to a Daoist lineage. The difference is that there are no "ordinary believers", but only "Daoshis"---who are more like monks/priests/medicine men than the sorts of people who sit in the pews of Christian churches.
I eventually gave up on this website because of a couple characters who dominated the site, but in the interim something called "Google" had been invented. This allowed me to do some name searches on Daoism and came across a paper written by a Phd candidate by the name of Elijah Siegler . (It appears that he is now an assistant professor at a college in the USA.) I wrote to him (the wonders of email!) about my experience with Moy Lin Shin and he contacted me and eventually came to my home to interview me as research for his thesis on Western Daoists.
I learned some very interesting facts from Elijah. One of which was that Moy had only initiated a few people for a very brief time. (The most famous is Eva Wong---who has translated many books on Daoism for the Shambalah Press.) This explains why Mr. Moy made such a big deal of my leaving the Taoist Tai Chi Association. No doubt he considered initiating me into his Temple as an enormous gesture, one that I had thrown away without any consideration!
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21 comments:
That's quite a story! Have you ever considered contacting Moy Lin Shin again? Or maybe a better question would be: Had you understood the implications of the "ordination" ritual, would you still have left?
Mr. Moy has since died. However, I did attempt to square things away.
First of all, I contacted the Fung Loy Kok Temple and they were willing, but they made some demands that I didn't think were terribly healthy (a large donation plus I had to quit any other taijiquan organizations), so I decided to not bother.
I did think that some sort of gesture would be a good idea, however, so I gave a financial windfall to a Daoist nunnery in China. Afterwards I had one of those "numinous dreams" that are so important to Daoists. It involved Mr. Moy giving me a correction in my taijiquan. I saw this as reconciliation---even if I no longer am involved with the Fung Loy Kok.
As to your hypothetical question, I don't know. There were and are elements of the Taoist Tai Chi Association that I still think are unhealthy and I can't see myself "holding my nose" over the long haul. But I might have been more interested in pursuing Daoism through other venues a little earlier. One of the things I have found out through study is that there is a tradition that even though Daoists are initiated by an individual teacher, once that door has been opened the Master doesn't have the right to close it. In other words, people in my situation have a right to continue with their study and look for other teachers. Which is exactly what I have done.
(This was one of the things that I don't like about the organization I left---it keeps the membership in the dark about other schools of taijiquan or Daoism.)
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Bill. I'm glad you managed to patch things up with Mr. Moy. I know I certainly don't like to leave loose ends hanging around, especially when it comes to religious/spiritual matters.
I can definitely appreciate your stance on the Taoist Tai Chi Association; I am not a fan of religious *institutions*, myself. I feel like they can be as competitive as corporations, sometimes, competing for "believers" the way companies compete for consumers. Anything they can do to discredit other "brands" (or keep people in the dark about other brands), they can, and will, do.
This is an unfortunate tale, showing a serious cultural miscommunication between you and your lineage. You were accepted via the "baishi" route of initiation, but just taking baishi does not entitle you to teach as a master of the lineage! It's only the first step. Even more, it sounds like this group went out of their way to include you, maybe risking losing face in the process. They did, and then you loaded on insult to injury by deciding to break the oaths you "unwittingly" made as a dizi and teach before you were certified! It sounds like they really bent over backwards for you, even with the contribution, and you still have little respect for your master? If you were in over your head, why didnt you ask more questions?
You ecclectic westerners see these organizations as voluntary ones that you mine for what you want and leave the rest. Chinese have some idea that joining a society means a sort of fealty "zhong" and allegiance, like Guangong made, that has disappeared from the West.
You are quite right about the cultural differences between Westerners and Easterners. But the knife cuts both ways, Moy Lin Shin should have made some effort to understand Western sensibilities, which he clearly did not.
But I am not just a "Westerner", but also a Master scholar. And as part of my training I have learned to take a lot of Eastern descriptions with a grain of salt. It is true that there is a strong stream of authoritarian, patriarchal lineage stuff in modern Chinese society. But there is also a historical, anarchistic stream---especially in Daoism. People did travel around looking for different teachers to learn from. And it is also clear that there were many cultural innovators.
The important issue to understand is that if Daoism is simply an aspect of Chinese culture, then what sort of universal truth claims can it make? That is, if it has no trans-cultural truth to it, then isn't at best nothing more than artistic baggage like national costume or ethnic cuisine? Conversely, if there is an intrinsic Truth to it that transcends culture, then it doesn't belong to one particular nationality. And if it does transcend China, then Westerners have a right to develop their own understanding.
I don't know if you are still following this- the last entry was 2007 - but read on and any reply would be interesting to consider and think about-
I too have stumbled upon the TTCS, and the branch i am in is in a big enough city, but is also isolated and the people, while earnest enough, too much even, considering the actual knowledge most of them carry with them, -
well, basically, it has all the hallmarks of a cult, somewhat innocuous, not quite the kidnapping sort, more the ‘i’ll be your friend if you do whatever i do and the way i do it too’ sort - but a cult nonetheless- a tea pot which must not taste any other tea, an archaic rendering of the spine reverently pointed to on its wall, with no knowledge whatsoever of its meaning either originally or how it has been superseded, calling things in a foreign tongue with no real, deep knowledge of translation or transliterated intent, nor implication - in short they are doing the same thing to Taoism that the foolish and credulous have done to western religion, all in the name of wanting to belong, and wanting it simple -
there is one older gentleman who really has some quality, and one younger man who might be both warrior and monk/philosopher, if he goes to some other masters (note the plural)
Now, and at other times, i admit i am working things out in my head in front of you, -
i 'discovered' this location about a year ago, but shied away after speaking with the woman who was at the desk. "Baptists" i thought to myself, ‘holy rollers, snake handlers, in-tongues speakers’ - balderdash in religious robes, dress up and costume party - a travesty, in short - the drag of group dynamics for the weak of mind and a false unguent for the lonely of spirit - also the money thing - ‘string you along’, ‘the nine circles of belonging’ (and ‘contributing’), the special retreat, orange kool-aid in orangeville-
how silly, why am i here for a while?
not to steal, but to take what is not theirs to hold away from me or anyone else
pay to talk to the spirit, pay to learn what cannot be taught -
i am here to follow along but make my own trail-
but enough about me, i am here to question their integrity as well
what a collection of bodies in bad shape!
and the women really should practice separately most of the time- the sexes do and should move differently - there must be something special they should do among themselves, just as the men should also honor this necessity
and what a bunch of lazy pot bellies - there are right ways and wrong ways to breathe, and then there is the unconscious way - which is also a wrong way - you know, asleep at the wheel
there are too many women in this branch, too much in control, and too ignorant of whatever tai chi is and more into making some kind of nest - so of course vipers come in, because each one wants her own certain kind of nest, and no one looks outside -
because of all this, i have made up this vignette of moy’s untimely ‘trip to heaven’, may the man rest in peace if he is actually gone, but circumstances make it look like an arranged ‘retirement’, and he is ensconced in great comfort and luxury somewhere on the grounds of the palace in orangeville - i mean for the great health benefits touted by these folks so loudly, it is ironic that ‘the master’ passes away at about not too old, certainly not ancient, as a master should attain - and ‘accident’ kind of implies someone was not really attentive to his surroundings, yes no?
a little more to follow in next post, thank you
continued from above because i wrote too much
more about me - thank dog this is not treated as a martial form by these people - i treat it as a moving meditation, and it is full of subtle body movement - but you should see the little marionette’s dance they make out of certain walk-around steps, a stiff-legged tight little circle following drawings in a book rather than what the human body does - those turned in steps are dangerous to the body, put one at a real disadvantage were it an actual fighting form and are so incredibly ungraceful - much of the movement these poor folks do lacks fluidity, jerky little movements from pose to pose, without repose, without breath, and not very conscious either -
how do they do it-
-with the money they pull in, anything could be gussied up, and there is a lot of very facile friendship offered
why am i there - i find it hard to trust an artificially strict asian, although i would like to find one who is both authentic and westernized, and the floozy white people who try to teach in some jane fonda jack lalane style are just pathetic -
plus, i have an attitude - i have years of professional dance which was based on breathing and is a form which took dance to be communication, not form - i.e., not concerned so totally with prettiness or pure acrobatics, but athletic, in the sense of excellence, and that every little movement has a meaning, so one is dealing with a sort of physical grammar, movement does not follow upon itself just because it is possible, but because it is meaningful- therefore one takes upon oneself the chore of educating one’s audience, rather than merely entertaining them
one final thought - from my point of view-
those people, mostly men, but also some dangerous women, who want to make this into a fighting form have no idea, no right idea, about it - they don’t understand the cultural context that made defense necessary and how turning defense into offense was quite a trick
These same people would also like to find the striking fist of Buddha, and of course for them the bleeding heart of some Jesu is always worth fighting for - it’s a cultural sickness - avoid those who think that way, for they will attack you for not attacking them
how long i stay or how soon i go depends on a lot - i want to learn the whole form, the '108', and use it for my own purposes - which are, as i said already (didn't?) a walking meditation
"Yah pays your money, yah makes your choice".
No one's perfect and we all bring our own personal baggage to whatever we do.
Some people think that taijiquan isn't a martial art and just want some sort of minimal exercise plus an excuse to get out of the house and drink tea with others of like mind. There's nothing wrong with that.
Other people feel the force of life bursting through their veins and want to do taijiquan as a martial art. They are as good at that as their creativity and hard work let them. If it is good exercise great. If it results in getting into stupid fights---that comes from them, not the art.
Take what you can from the club. If you can't see anything more to get and you don't feel like you want to give (or they want to receive), then move on.
I am surprised by the venom of some of the people writing about the taoist tai chi society. Mr. Moy did indeed pass away. i know the man who worked on him through the night he passed in the hospital. I met Mr. Moy when i was 16 and have done Tai Chi off and on for years, and as much as i agree that institutions are by nature annoying the foundation of the form that Mr. Moy created is quite special. The idea that he would be hiding somewhere is laughable if you knew the man. The form itself is a modified yang form incorporating lok-hop, sing yi and bagua with chigung postures. it is his recreation of the original monastic form and is quite special. As in any institution take the good and leave the rest.
Rufus:
Good to hear from you.
I think the best way to understand this stuff is to see it as an example of how "wild history" is created. I've noticed myself how Moy Lin Shin has been transformed from "Mr. Moy" to "Master Moy". It's almost inevitable that part of the process involves a splinter point of view that would see him as some sort of devil hidden master. ;-)
I do think that there were elements of Moy's style that did create a lot of annoyance with him. He was an authoritarian who tried to completely control the "tai chi life" of everyone in the club. This meant that he had a lot of the trappings of a "crazy wisdom type", like Chogyam Rimpoche down in Boulder Colorado.
As for the taijiquan, I don't really agree with you 100%. I don't actually believe that it is originally a monk's art, as the history of the art seems to be fairly well mapped out as coming from Chen village and being modified by Yang Cheng-Fu to take the form that Moy taught. One of the things that bugged people about Moy was the way he created this "mystical" history stuff about the taijiquan he taught. It also bugged people that he took such umbrage about anyone who tried to do independent research into taijiquan.
As I've stated before, I don't want to tar the existing group with the politics that exists decades ago. All I was trying to do was explain my existence as a Daoist.
Interesting bio! It's actually hard to find any independent info on Moy Lin Shin, it seems most writers worship or hate the man.
I understand that people want to let the past be past, but it ends up that noone will really know the full story - the winners write the history books after all. It seems some of the people who knew him well have stepped into the background and say little beyond the official line, if anything at all.
Ultimately I agree its best to look to developing what benefit you can health-wise and move on or step back when things go too far. But if more can be said it would be good to find a middle ground why things went this way.
As the Buddha said - the more attached you are, the more it will hurt when it changes or shows its true self. I guess that explains why there is so much passion and politics in the Taoist Tai Chi Society - he must have been very charismatic.
Good luck & best wishes to you.
Thank you everyone for all of your opinions. I came across this website after some friends and I decided to search the web for the reason Moy Lin-shin died at the age of 67. I respect Bill Hulet for his impartiality and openness, and the gentleness of his opinion which is not intended to aggravate or provoke. I think he has taken away much learning from the experience, and hope his life has improved by it.
As to the mystery of Moy Lin-shin's death... It seems the issue is much more political than I had imagined. Rumor, enemies, agendas... Who was the real man, and what were his goals? To be honest, I don't care so much anymore. That time is past- his sun has faded, and unless it reappears someday, I do not think much is to gain from dwelling on it. The organisation today is not the same as the one it started as- it has changed and evolved over time. And if I find something worth learning from that organisation, then I shall do so. And when I find my learning plateaus, I will seek new teachers as I continue my personal journey of martial education.
Thanks again for all your discussion gentlemen. It really helped me come to this conclusion.
Hi...I've been a student of Taoist Tai Chi since 1995. I was originally attracted to the "Taoist" descriptor but soon discovered there was almost no interest in Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, Tao Te Ching, or natural simplicity. I have been a philosophical Taoist since 1970. The tai chi practice has been and continues to be beneficial.
I have mainly stayed out of the way of the leadership politics due to its obnoxiousness. One day I wrote a savvy paper on the "Principles of Tai Chi Instruction" to address some inappropriate instruction practices. I attributed it to an anonymous Taoist from ancient times. I slipped it into a poobah meeting without being seen. The poobahs had a fit. I took ownership and wrote apologies for the sake of our local group.
The parochial nature of the TTCS is silly. Immature. I am interested in other forms, and practice a Chi Gung form very privately...never in the TTCS studio.
I was able to study with Eva Wong for a while, until she was expelled. This was a weird and disconcerting loss. I benefited greatly from her attention. Her expulsion was not in accordance with any Taoist principles, but seemed quite consistent with authoritarian structures.
As a discipline, it has its virtues. As an organization, like all others, it has its structure for continuance, and its pettiness for its absurditarian drama. So, what else is new.
I practice the tao in as many places as I inhabit, and bit by bit I am getting it.
I'm glad to find this discussion. I learned the tai chi form through my local chapter of the Taoist Tai Chi Society about 15 years ago, and stopped attending when I discovered the demands of fatherhood. I returned to the group about a year ago as circumstances changed to allow me more options with my time. Thus, I found myself with the opportunity to see the "before and after pictures" of the organization.
At first, I noticed little change. I quickly remembered the form, and the instruction and corrections were based on the same fundamental principles of body alignment that I remembered from my previous experience. My flexibility quickly improved, my knees stopped hurting, and my lower-body strength increased - benefits of practicing tai chi when it is competently taught. The meditative nature of the form started to come back to me, too. All of these positive experiences, I believe, are attributable to the integrity of the people involved.
At the same time, I continued to do my own reading and research in the areas of taoism, tai chi and other martial arts. This was never discouraged in the local group.
Then I started hearing about another side of things. The local group had been under some pressure to engage in fundraising efforts for the regional and national organizations, and to do volunteer work for the regional facility in a nearby city. Our lead instructor had been dealing with this pressure, and was finding the personal financial requirements of travelling to attend workshops to be too much. He also was discouraged by the declining quality of instruction at these Instructors' Workshops.
Our local chapter has recently ceased to be officially attached to the TTCS, and is now affiliated with the Canadian Tai Chi Academy - which was set up by senior students of Moy Lin Shin after leaving the society. There is no pressure to raise funds for the larger organization, and the local group is encouraged to strive for autonomy and to provide tai chi instruction to the community as it sees fit.
So here I am, a middle aged retired farmer, in better shape than I've been in for years, and getting tossed around the room (during 'push hands' practice) by splindly women in their late 60's.
While I'm at it, I'll recommend "The Watercourse Way" by Alan Watts for a profound and clear examination of Taoism.
Good to hear from you. I'm happy to see that people are working together to promote taijiquan. The group you joined looks pretty good. I suppose my only quibble is to continue to talk about "Master" Moy. I know that since he's died this is pretty safe (your group no longer has to deal with his weird behaviour.) I also know that by having a groovy authority figure to refer to, it makes it easier to organize.
But having said that, I think the whole process of having "Masters" to organize around simply prepares people to slavishly follow people. I think it is much more healthy to accept that the most we can have are "teachers" and the movement comes from the collective work of many people over many years.
Either way, it appears that you're on the right path, IMHO.
Still making a mean french bread, Bill? btw, the FLK robes were simple blue "confucian" robes, not ornate brocade. Just sayin'.
Anonymous:
My memory may be playing tricks with me, but I do seem to remember ornate, embroidered robes for the Temple when I got involved. Later on, I do remember seeing nothing but the blue robes. But that was after my time.
Aahhhh, the TTCS. What a bunch.
Like the previous comment, I also left for a few years when I had two young kids. When I came back I gave it a good shot to continue but eventually saw clearly (in my heart) that I had no place there.
Afterwards I started to see The Society differently. I started to question why some administrators of a purported spiritually-based organization are making upwards of $100 000 a year. Why does an organization that makes a profit of $1 000 000 every six months (planetary-wide) not do more for the world other than build a few schools in some poor country?
Anyway, I got involved about a year ago in another form of tai chi and I can also see how poor the instruction is in the TTCS. The feeling of liberation due to the lack of the cult-aspect of the TTCS is truly amazing.
When I left the TTCS I had been doing their form intensely for 15 years. And, yes, I did meet Mr. Moy.
Thanks for the site and the discussion. Peace.
Wow that was quite a read.
I am currently a member of the TTCS and have been for 3 years. I know little of the nature of Master Moy, or of the workings of the Society outside of my local branch. I do know that I am not forced to raise funds for anything, my monthly dues are voluntary and I am not kept from studying Taoism on any level. What the TTCS has done for me is provide me with at form of Tai Chi that relaxes my body and my mind while improving my flexibility and balance and that is enough for me. So I can only say that we all must do what brings us peace and to revile another person's way can bring no true peace to yourself whether you are Christian or Taoist.
"to revile another person's way can bring no true peace to yourself whether you are Christian or Taoist"
So are you saying that if someone is critical of say cannibalism, mass murder, pederasty, etc, that they will never have "true peace"? What is the difference between being critical and "reviling" something? I would suggest that people make critical assessments of various social groups and individuals all the time. Mr. Moy certainly did.
A few points:
1. There are 2 types of robes worn in the FLK. One is blue for Confucianism and the other is red/black for Taoism.
2. Anyone who is serious about either tai chi or about spirituality should not stay in the TTCS too long. They ambitiously, and I would say dangerously, try to mix the two together. An organization focussed even on just one such aspect requires a master. So the result is very weird since they have neither a tai chi master nor a spiritual one.
The TTCS is therefore a fine long term place for folks who are not too serious about either. It's a great place if you want to stretch your body and socialize. It is especially good for people in advanced age or those with physical handicaps as the tai chi set is easily adapted.
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